Occasional Reader 9/3/2021 5:50:20 AM

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Good morning.  Here’s what we were doing in Afghanistan:

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/marcel-duchamp-toilet-afghanistan-conceptual-art/

Gosh, I wonder why we failed?

vxbush 9/3/2021 6:08:53 AM

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In #1 Occasional Reader said: Gosh, I wonder why we failed?

Did this start while Bush 43 was still in office? Or do we get to thank Obama for this? 

vxbush 9/3/2021 6:34:58 AM

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Reply to Occasional Reader in 1:

Note that in the comments there is quite a bit of pushback from readers suggesting the author's analysis is incomplete and very skewed. Some of the comments seem to have merit. 

Occasional Reader 9/3/2021 6:49:14 AM

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Reply to vxbush in 3:

which comments are you referring to?

Kosh's Shadow 9/3/2021 7:01:38 AM

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Reply to Occasional Reader in 1:

Let's hope the art and gender studies people are the ones left behind.

vxbush 9/3/2021 7:44:50 AM

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In #4 Occasional Reader said: which comments are you referring to?

In no particular order: 

"What is this post is supposed to be saying? The embedded clip is too short to make any sense of its purpose (except sneering contempt). Since there are several universities in Afghanistan, it is not inconceivable that some students study art history/western art. It is also not surprising that male/female roles in the society would have been an important matter, once the mission of the US in Afghanistan moved beyond capturing OBL. You insist on making this about some version of ‘drag queen story hour” when there is no evidence for that. Afghanistan is more than a nation of goat herders and hillbillies - Kabul in the 1960s for example was a thriving and cosmopolitan place. But it is that American combination of contempt/ignorance which explains, in large part, foreign policy failure in places like Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, Somalia…"

"So you're suggesting it was Gender Studies that caused the Afghan Army to fold like a cheap suit ?"

"While I agree that the mission in Afghanistan was fatally flawed from the start I'm not sure it is helpful to make partisan shots at liberal higher education. Was it silly to expose Afghan women to modern art? Perhaps, but the mission failed due to more than just political correctness."

"Read through the Inspector General of Iraq reconstruction’s summary about 8 key mistakes made by US forces and planners. No Dadaism mentioned."

"One of the running complaints in Afghanistan was that the NGOs really ran the civilian side of the regime (and controlled the budgets), the Afghans were at most figureheads."

This wasn't focused on Afghanistan but on Dreher's analysis of America: 

"Right now in Texas and other red states, abortion and "women's equality" are on their last throes, as people finally grow up and realize that feminism is nothing but stupidity and selfishness. In 21 states, constitutional carry laws have been enacted to restore the 2nd Amendment. And Hollywood studios and mainstream comic-book producers are going belly up as their "sensitive" reboots get snubbed in favor of contributions from smaller producers who create their media with love and dedication.

"All over the world, the timeless vision of our Founding Fathers speaks to the primal urges of every human being. Among youths of every nationality, English is the language of choice; indeed, in global air travel, navigation, telecommunications, and computer programming, it has long been mandatory. In not only places such as the Philippines and Tonga, but also Singapore, Taiwan, and South Korea, Christanity is now the majority religion. And even in the least-Christian locales, Christmas, Easter, and New Year's Day are heartily celebrated by practically all.

"Once we finish purging ourselves of our misguided endeavors, our culture, religion, and language will fill the whole Earth as water fills the ocean. Indeed, one day, even under the Taliban, girls will be allowed to trade in their burqas for hijabs and blue jeans—just like in Vietnam, modern teenagers happily wear our flag on their t-shirts and jackets, barely a generation after the Fall of Saigon."

Occasional Reader 9/3/2021 8:12:06 AM

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Reply to vxbush in 6:

So I'd characterize the first four of those as strawman arguments; he fifth, is actually quite congruent with what Dreher is saying; and the last, is off on another tangent, and not incongruent with what Dreher is saying. 

buzzsawmonkey 9/3/2021 8:26:30 AM

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Trying to teach Afghans about Marcel Duchamp instead of trying to teach them about America's founding documents and their meaning was/is/will always be a prescription for failure.

It is entirely possible that teaching them about Western concepts of liberty is also a prescription of failure---but that failure is less guaranteed than trying to teach them Dadaist art appreciation.

vxbush 9/3/2021 8:27:25 AM

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In #7 Occasional Reader said: So I'd characterize the first four of those as strawman arguments

What do you think is the central thesis of Dreher's article? 

Occasional Reader 9/3/2021 8:38:59 AM

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In #9 vxbush said: What do you think is the central thesis of Dreher's article? 

That our attempt to nation-build in Afghanistan was derailed by, at least in part, a focus on propagating postmodern Western “luxury beliefs”.

A culture that is so self-loathing has difficulty convincing others to climb on board.

buzzsawmonkey 9/3/2021 9:02:52 AM

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Reply to Occasional Reader in 10:

Nicely phrased.

buzzsawmonkey 9/3/2021 9:17:57 AM

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Reply to Occasional Reader in 10:

Interesting thing; I posted the Kipling poem "The Islanders" that I posted here some days ago on Insty, in the "Women in the Draft" entry, and it went into "pending approval."  I couldn't think what might have set off the "pending" designation---then it occurred to me that some algorithm might have picked up on the "cock" in "cock-pheasant."  So, I replaced the "o" in "cock-pheasant" with an asterisk, and re-posted the poem both on Insty and on PJM, where the article came from.  It posted on PJM---but stayed in "pending" on Insty.

Weird.

vxbush 9/3/2021 9:24:54 AM

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In #10 Occasional Reader said: That our attempt to nation-build in Afghanistan was derailed by, at least in part, a focus on propagating postmodern Western “luxury beliefs”. A culture that is so self-loathing has difficulty convincing others to climb on board.

For me, that "in part" designation was harder to justify. There seemed to be a heavy emphasis in the article on our disregard for traditional Afghani norms and morals, of which there was presented one example of "luxury beliefs", as you called it. 

Hence my belief that those comments that pointed out other, potentially more pertinent issues, were not tangents to the topic. 

@PBJ3 9/3/2021 9:55:59 AM

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New Zealand PM Ardern Says Supermarket stabbing Was "Terror Attack"

buzzsawmonkey 9/3/2021 9:58:42 AM

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Oh, if only Lewis Carroll were still with us...

Jabber-Wokie

'Twas Covid, and the terrified
Distanced and trembled in their masks
Those yet unvaxxed they all decried
Imposing passports for tasks...

vxbush 9/3/2021 10:11:11 AM

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In #15 buzzsawmonkey said: Oh, if only Lewis Carroll were still with us...

I don't know; you seem to have an excellent start there. Please continue.

buzzsawmonkey 9/3/2021 10:12:32 AM

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Reply to vxbush in 16:

You've heard the re-written Pledge of Allegiance, I presume?

"...One vacci-Nation, under Mandate, Indisputable, with Social Distance and Masking for All..."

vxbush 9/3/2021 10:22:43 AM

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In #17 buzzsawmonkey said: You've heard the re-written Pledge of Allegiance, I presume? "...One vacci-Nation, under Mandate, Indisputable, with Social Distance and Masking for All..."

Is that all that is changed? It would seem a heck of a lot more needs to be put into the new pledge. 

"I pledge allegiance to the CDC of the United States of America...."

buzzsawmonkey 9/3/2021 11:19:43 AM

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buzzsawmonkey 9/3/2021 1:37:38 PM

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buzzsawmonkey 9/3/2021 2:58:42 PM

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