vxbush 8/13/2024 6:35:40 AM

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JCM 8/13/2024 7:09:28 AM

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They are keeping Kamala under tighter wraps than they did Joe.

She's the invisible candidate.

CBS in June.
Trump proposal to exempt tips from taxes could cost $250 billion

CBS yesterday.
Harris backs ending taxes on tips, echoing Trump proposal

vxbush 8/13/2024 7:34:48 AM

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Reply to JCM in 2:

At least they are acknowledging that Trump put out the idea first. 

JCM 8/13/2024 7:41:07 AM

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Reply to vxbush in 3:

Farther down in the article they do admit Harris' plan will "cost" but less than Trumps.

Occasional Reader 8/13/2024 7:50:34 AM

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In #3 vxbush said: At least they are acknowledging that Trump put out the idea first. 

And IMHO, it's a bad idea, no matter who proposes it. 

vxbush 8/13/2024 8:26:41 AM

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In #5 Occasional Reader said: And IMHO, it's a bad idea, no matter who proposes it. 

Because.....? Missing money in the tax coffers? 

Occasional Reader 8/13/2024 8:36:44 AM

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Reply to vxbush in 6:

Because there is no sound policy (or moral) case for why income based on tips, in particular, should be exempt from taxation, while income based on hourly wages or annual salary should not be.  it's completely arbitrary.  

Occasional Reader 8/13/2024 8:42:28 AM

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vxbush 8/13/2024 8:43:32 AM

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In #7 Occasional Reader said: Because there is no sound policy (or moral) case for why income based on tips, in particular, should be exempt from taxation, while income based on hourly wages or annual salary should not be.  it's completely arbitrary.  

Except income based on wages or salary generally have a lower limit that is set (bonuses or overtime may increase that pay). It doesn't go below a set amount, whereas tips have the only lower limit of $0. 

Occasional Reader 8/13/2024 8:52:24 AM

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In #9 vxbush said: Except income based on wages or salary generally have a lower limit that is set (bonuses or overtime may increase that pay). It doesn't go below a set amount, whereas tips have the only lower limit of $0. 

i don't understand your argument.  Why does that mean income based on tips should be exempt from taxation?  

vxbush 8/13/2024 9:19:23 AM

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In #10 Occasional Reader said: i don't understand your argument.  Why does that mean income based on tips should be exempt from taxation?  

There is a lower floor under which no taxes must be paid. I don't recall the exact figure, but let's say it's $9000. If you're only being paid a small wage plus tips, there is the possibility that you are going to end up under that threshold. In order to get your money back from the IRS, you would have to file, and some may consider that onerous.  

I can't say for sure, but that may be the reasoning for why some folks think this is a good argument. I'm not beholden to this position, but I'm quite willing to argue discuss it. 

buzzsawmonkey 8/13/2024 9:40:34 AM

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People are sneering at the Harris/Walz campaign for stealing Donald Trump's proposal to make tips non-taxed.

The campaign, however, sees it as a way to pander to two diametrically-opposed communities----the LGBT lobby and Jewish mohels. Taking a leaf from Obama's "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor," they are telling both communities, which otherwise have nothing in common, "If you like your tips, you can keep your tips."

Of course, they're lying just as Obama did about "keeping your doctor."

buzzsawmonkey 8/13/2024 9:43:40 AM

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vxbush 8/13/2024 10:19:00 AM

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In #13 buzzsawmonkey said: The video here of the National Guard under Tim Walz going through a neighborhood during Covid-Fest and shooting paintballs at citizens on their own property to force them indoors is, to say the least, chilling.

Damn. That never crossed my feeds during 2020, and that's almost certainly a result of then Twitter's policy to never let bad news out to be seen. 

Occasional Reader 8/13/2024 11:38:41 AM

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In #13 buzzsawmonkey said: The video here of the National Guard under Tim Walz going through a neighborhood during Covid-Fest and shooting paintballs at citizens on their own property to force them indoors is, to say the least, chilling.

That is absolutely incredible, and I'm astonished I've never seen it before.  

Dystopian nightmare stuff.

And assuming (as seems reasonable) that Walz was the one who ordered this, or at least was on board with it, it should be disqualifying for any further political career of any kind.  Hell, he should face criminal charges. 

Occasional Reader 8/13/2024 11:47:35 AM

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In #11 vxbush said: If you're only being paid a small wage plus tips, there is the possibility that you are going to end up under that threshold. In order to get your money back from the IRS, you would have to file, and some may consider that onerous.  

Whether or not you are below the gross income threshold that requires filing a tax return (which varies, depending on age, marital status, etc.) is simply a function of, well... your gross income, regardless of how it's derived.  Sure, if they change the law/rules to exempt tips from income tax, then tipped workers would be more likely to fall under that threshold... but so what?  That doesn't change the arbitrary nature of declaring that tips are exempt, as opposed to hourly wages, etc. being exempt.  It's a circular argument.  So I'm still not seeing any policy-based reason here. 

buzzsawmonkey 8/13/2024 11:52:19 AM

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JCM 8/13/2024 12:32:54 PM

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Tax exempt tips.... my 2 cents.

Exempting or not exempting tips is a political shell. Just like fiddling with income brackets, and tax brackets and all the exemption.

Until there is serious talking about spending, limiting taxation to a percentage of GDP. Congress actually writing a budge and not a constant stream of Continuing Resolutions, ending baseline planning, etc....

Then whether of not to exempt tips is a election year shiny thing.

vxbush 8/13/2024 1:10:28 PM

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In #16 Occasional Reader said: Sure, if they change the law/rules to exempt tips from income tax, then tipped workers would be more likely to fall under that threshold... but so what?  That doesn't change the arbitrary nature of declaring that tips are exempt, as opposed to hourly wages, etc. being exempt.  It's a circular argument.  So I'm still not seeing any policy-based reason here. 

Okay, let me try a different line of reasoning. 

People in positions that can receive tips must report those tips to their employers, according to the IRS. The employer is then required to collect the Social Security, Medicare, and other taxes on the reported tips. This is the same as any other job where a person works for someone else. 

The difference is that the employer is dependent on the employee to accurately report the tips made. An employer at a salaried/hourly position doesn't do that. Depending upon the hours worked in a pay period, a person may end up with a lot of tips and have to pay a lot of tax on the tips but not actually work enough hours to cover the tax in that pay period. Then the employer has to wait until the next pay period to collect the taxes. 

This is kind of a nightmare for employers, because they are dependent upon their employees reporting accurately the tips they make and they have to balance the number of hours assigned to employees against the quality of work they can expect from each employee. There's a kind of disparity between the employer taking out taxes from your paycheck to cover the taxes that you have to pay based on tips. It's like the paycheck is really just the employer covering your tips on your behalf. 

vxbush 8/13/2024 1:11:38 PM

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In #19 vxbush said: just the employer covering your tips taxes on your behalf. 

Fixed.

Occasional Reader 8/13/2024 1:53:45 PM

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Reply to vxbush in 19:

Well, okay.  It still seems like something of an overreaction to what is essentially a bookkeeping problem. (But in fact, is just political pandering, but you knew that, I think.)

buzzsawmonkey 8/13/2024 2:12:09 PM

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Democrats: "Deaf to America!" 

Islamists:"Death to America!"  

Who wants to vote this November on the basis of a speech impediment?

Kosh's Shadow 8/13/2024 5:28:52 PM

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From this article:

Student Leaders Share Campus Struggles at CAMERA on Campus Conference

Statement by one of the speakers:

The conference speakers were invited to educate the students as well as offer tactics and strategies to fight back in the information war. The Israeli Canadian TV personality Shai DeLuca, who spoke on July 31, told the students that they are fighting the war against misinformation right now, which he said “is so important to our existence.” DeLuca debunked various anti-Israel narratives, such as the trope that Israel is committing genocide in the Gaza Strip. He pointed out that the United Nations defines genocide as “proven intent on the part of the perpetrators to physically destroy an ethnic racial or religious group. Cultural destruction does not suffice nor does the intention to simply disperse a group.” He argued that there clearly is no intent on Israel’s part to commit genocide because, if that were true, the war would have been over on Oct. 8. “Why would we send our own soldiers our own children into Gaza … when we could simply carpet bomb the place?” DeLuca called the allegations of genocide against Israel “quite offensive” because it describes “Jewish history” like the Holocaust.

I love that - if Israel wanted to commit genocide, the war would have been over Oct 8