vxbush 5/18/2022 6:00:32 AM

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I haven't seen many comments regarding Project Veritas' sting of a Twitter employee, admitting they are all pretty much communists. That's not surprising, but the fact that he admitted that Twitter does not believe in free speech should be a big deal for all Americans. 

The idea that you can have whatever beliefs you want but that you should not infringe upon the rights of others has been completely broken in this country. I know Section 230 comes into play here, but that basic idea--that progressives are allowed to act on their beliefs but conservatives are not--needs to start swinging the other way. 

And thus endeth my soap box. And now, for a cute puppy. 

JCM 5/18/2022 7:36:34 AM

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Reply to vxbush in 1:

The problem I have with Twitter, Cancel Culture, that whole panoply of actions on the left is THEY TOLD US!

Herbert Marcuse, Critic of Pure Tolerance, 1965. Lays it all out.

On the side if we talk about what the left is doing it's called "conspiracy theory" or we are called the intolerant, the "phobes", etc.... 

On our side too few know about things like Marcuse, Max Horkheimer (Critical Theory), and can't adequately articulate the argument. Many of those are the "faces" and "voices" on the right. At a more basic level too few on the right can explain the philosophy of the "right".

Most on the left don't even know what or why they are doing what they are doing. The regurgitate talking points, but cannot explain an the philosophy that supports their feelings. Heck I could probably make a better argument for socialism than Bernie, Warren, AOC combined.

The left has been very successful in their campaign, in both hiding it and executing it.

Kosh's Shadow 5/18/2022 7:49:10 AM

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Occasional Reader 5/18/2022 7:54:21 AM

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Reply to vxbush in 1:

Your posting a cute puppy pic proves that you are RACIST and FASCIST.

If you question why that might be, that proves even MORE that you're a racist and a fascist... 

lucius septimius 5/18/2022 8:13:12 AM

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JCM 5/18/2022 8:15:16 AM

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Reply to Kosh's Shadow in 3:

Too right.

They call Jan. 6th "insurrection". But look at the what the Pelosi, Schumer cabal does. That is real insurrection.

buzzsawmonkey 5/18/2022 8:21:14 AM

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Reply to lucius septimius in 5:

Congratulations to him, and to you for passing on the smart guy/wise guy tradition!

doppelganglander 5/18/2022 9:00:25 AM

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Reply to lucius septimius in 5:

Fantastic! Please give him my very best wishes!

Occasional Reader 5/18/2022 9:02:53 AM

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Reply to lucius septimius in 5:

WOW!  Congratulations to you both. 

vxbush 5/18/2022 9:15:01 AM

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Lucius shared the good news: 

In #5 lucius septimius said: Youngest Boy had his 8th grade graduation today.  Although they don't call them that anymore, he was valedictorian.  I had no idea; neither did he apparently.  So I'm a proud papa today.

Absolutely fantastic! Wonderful job on his part. 

Now, on to the silly stuff: 

In #2 JCM said: At a more basic level too few on the right can explain the philosophy of the "right". Most on the left don't even know what or why they are doing what they are doing. 

Yes. Our side also makes the discussion too difficult by bringing in section 230 and talking about corporate free speech rather than the very basic first amendment. Those discussions need to be had, but not with everyone we meet and almost certainly not with the folks who are agreeing with these limitations of free speech. 

JCM, what is your one- or two-sentence refutation of Marcuse's position? Because I had to laugh at what Wikipedia lists as Marcuse's position: 

Marcuse argues that "the realization of the objective of tolerance" requires "intolerance toward prevailing policies, attitudes, opinions, and the extension of tolerance to policies, attitudes, and opinions which are outlawed or suppressed."

He was perfectly fine with that position in the 1960's--so the same argument to extend tolerance to the now out-of-mainstream positions such as conservative belief, identity of two sexes, etc. should now also be tolerated. Right? 

*crickets from the Left*

JCM 5/18/2022 9:29:34 AM

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In #10 vxbush said: JCM, what is your one- or two-sentence refutation of Marcuse's position? Because I had to laugh at what Wikipedia lists as Marcuse's position: 

Tolerance is fine, however tolerance of "evil" is not acceptable, evil as defined by the left anything which inhibits the progressive agenda. Therefore it is not tolerant to tolerate "evil" and it good to repress the intolerable.

There is a condensed version the essay, Repressive Tolerance. The concluding line of the opening paragraph:

Conversely, what is proclaimed and practiced as tolerance today, is in many of its most effective manifestations serving the cause of oppression.

And there you have Critical Theory being applied to real tolerance of ideas.

JCM 5/18/2022 9:40:03 AM

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Understand the Title; Repressive Tolerance, is not what Marcuse is proposing. It is the application of Critical Theory to tolerance, and that the ideas of a a true liberal democratic republic are what is "repressive" and tolerating those ideas is what is repression.

Like most leftist ideas, they have to wrap logic around the axle, to get to their justification of tyranny.

@PBJ3 5/18/2022 11:09:50 AM

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Reply to lucius septimius in 5:

Congratulations to you and your son!

vxbush 5/18/2022 11:13:49 AM

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In #12 JCM said: Understand the Title; Repressive Tolerance, is not what Marcuse is proposing. It is the application of Critical Theory to tolerance, and that the ideas of a a true liberal democratic republic are what is "repressive" and tolerating those ideas is what is repression. Like most leftist ideas, they have to wrap logic around the axle, to get to their justification of tyranny.

Right, but if I just say to someone, "oh, they are distorting logic to come to that conclusion", most people won't understand the logical fallacies and twists and aren't ready for a 20-minute explanation for why it's right. I need something that can red-pill people in 5 minutes, tops. 

JCM 5/18/2022 11:26:50 AM

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Reply to vxbush in 14: 5 minutes tops....

Then you run into two issue. First is the leftist masses are running on feelings. You disagree with them, it is an attack on their feelings and is personal. Second is you have to unpack the leftist philosophy, and build up the philosophy of LIberty.

It takes more than 5 minutes.

vxbush 5/18/2022 11:43:14 AM

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In #15 JCM said: Then you run into two issue. First is the leftist masses are running on feelings. You disagree with them, it is an attack on their feelings and is personal. Second is you have to unpack the leftist philosophy, and build up the philosophy of LIberty. It takes more than 5 minutes.

Fair enough. But I'd like to at least have a way to demonstrate that leftism running on feelings isn't a solid way to make societal decisions. 

Kosh's Shadow 5/18/2022 12:23:20 PM

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In #16 vxbush said: Fair enough. But I'd like to at least have a way to demonstrate that leftism running on feelings isn't a solid way to make societal decisions. 

I doubt it will work except to make them hate you, but you could point out the entire Nazi ideology was based on feelings - making Germans feel superior. Unfortunately, should any logic in their brain still work, they would have to realize that they are behaving that way and they need to change, and that step usually takes longer than 5 minutes - in 5 seconds they will hate you and completely reject what you are saying because it will affect their self image.

JCM 5/18/2022 1:53:07 PM

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lucius septimius 5/18/2022 3:02:26 PM

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One interesting thing at the graduation was meeting Youngest Boy's friends. With Covid and all, there haven't been many opportunities for that. I knew one of them, but his other two close friends I hadn't met. They're neat kids, and I like their parents (or moms, I should say - one of them hasn't seen her father in seven years). 

It was amazing the developmental range of the eighth graders.  Some (mostly boys) looked like they were 7 or 8.  Several of the kids (mostly girls) looked MUCH older than 13/14.  

There was a girl in the class who was constantly blathering on about race, telling the white kids that they had no right to say anything because they white.  I had a theory about her, which was proven correct:  she is at most 1/4 black based on her parents.  

Now a conundrum.  Youngest Boy is having lunch with his best friend (a sweet girl who has a serious crush on him but he's totally clueless). The Ex arranged it - the girl and her mom are coming - and then, at the last minute invited me.  I'm uncertain about whether I should go or not.

Kosh's Shadow 5/18/2022 3:18:07 PM

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Alice in Dairyland 5/18/2022 4:10:48 PM

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Reply to lucius septimius in 5:

Congratulations to you and your son!

In #19 lucius septimius said: The Ex arranged it - the girl and her mom are coming - and then, at the last minute invited me.  I'm uncertain about whether I should go or not.

Can you trust her (the Ex) not to pull something?

lucius septimius 5/18/2022 4:32:48 PM

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In #21 Alice in Dairyland said: Can you trust her (the Ex) not to pull something?

I can't trust her to wear shoes when she leaves her apartment.