CyberSimian 12/14/2022 5:01:19 AM

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In other news…

vxbush 12/14/2022 5:52:55 AM

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Reply to CyberSimian in 1:

It's the flip side of all those proles posting how terrible Twitter is.... on Twitter. 

lucius septimius 12/14/2022 7:09:01 AM

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Reply to CyberSimian in 1:

Per your question yesterday, most people use different nics, in part because of the distinct possibility of of being doxed by the Ice Weasels of the world.  One whose name I do remember was Spiny Norman.

CyberSimian 12/14/2022 7:44:57 AM

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In #3 lucius septimius said: One whose name I do remember was Spiny Norman.

DIIIIIIIIIIINSDAAAAAAAAALE!!!

CyberSimian 12/14/2022 7:46:47 AM

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In #3 lucius septimius said: most people use different nics, in part because of the distinct possibility of of being doxed by the Ice Weasels of the world. 

I've always switched up handles whenever I move around, dating all the way back to BBSes in the 80s.  However, I do sometimes go with variations on a theme (RoboMonkey to CyberSimian).

Occasional Reader 12/14/2022 8:04:37 AM

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And so, apparently, the New New Thing is "private attorneys are scrutinizing Elon Musk's US citizenship application; if he lied in any part of it, he could be stripped of citizenship and deported." 

Say, what's the name again for that system of government, in which powerful private-sector actors collude with an authoritarian regime, in order to deepen their power? 

Occasional Reader 12/14/2022 8:12:17 AM

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In #5 CyberSimian said: BBSes

= Big-Bootied Sluts?

Yeah, I'd switch up names in dealing with them, too... 

buzzsawmonkey 12/14/2022 9:15:27 AM

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Reply to Occasional Reader in 6:

Their bigotry against an African-American is appalling.

Alice in Dairyland 12/14/2022 10:32:44 AM

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Althouse: Why bother teaching cursive?

Any thoughts on this? My favorite two comments were about kids not being able to read original documents like the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution (will help in forming the new world order) and why bother teaching math, calculators can do it for you?  Others mentioned signatures are unique identifiers but that was countered with facial scans could be used.  Would identical twins present a problem?

Why even bother teaching reading for that matter, the elders can just tell us what the rule book says.

I was wondering the other day if they still teach shorthand.  I learned it in high school but would be hard pressed to understand any of it today.  Is cursive past its sell date?  I just sent a note out to a friend, it would have taken me a lot longer to print the words out than to write them in cursive. 

buzzsawmonkey 12/14/2022 11:23:46 AM

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Reply to Alice in Dairyland in 9:

"Cursive!  Foiled again!" ---Illiterate Millennial Snidely Whiplash

Cursive teaches manual dexterity, familiarity with letters---and, back when there were actual copybooks, as in Kipling's poem "The Gods of the Copybook Headings", the task of repeatedly copying out the adage, motto, or thought/concept at the head of the page taught the student things.

I would wager that everyone here has at sometime had to deal with the Youthful Idiot Cashier, who cannot add up the things you are purchasing, or figure change, unless the Magic Machine on which he or she relies is functioning properly, and who is gobsmacked when you hand them the correct change, or have calculated the correct change from the bills you've handed them, before the Magic Machine has done so.  

Anything which caters to increasing ignorance---permitting calculators in math class, permitting other electronics in other classes, encouraging people not to read, write, figure/calculate and, ultimately, to think for themselves---is an initiative which is ultimately geared towards creating an ignorant, dependent, slave population.

vxbush 12/14/2022 11:38:36 AM

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In #9 Alice in Dairyland said: Any thoughts on this?

Many. You hit on math and calculators, and I've been thinking on this topic for decades. 

It used to be that in order to be considered educated, you needed to know Latin and Greek. Do we believe this is still necessary information to have? If not, why not? The general answer has been that it isn't needed in day-to-day conversations and work, but it, too, prevents the populace from reading original documents that are foundational to our heritage, if not to our country. But I will let others talk more intelligently on this aspect. Let me turn to my area. 

For me, the issue with math and calculators involves several different facets.

One, as long as we have physical money (which the powers that be are trying to eliminate), you need to be able to make change. So you have to be able to do the subtraction in your head and know how to return change. That's a basic day-to-day skillset that may disappear when physical money does (except on the black market). 

Two, calculators are fine, but you have to ask yourself: do I trust them? Do I believe the calculators are doing the right thing where I can't see it? You've taken the step to depend on and trust the company making the calculator. That means you have to trust that the calculations are done correctly and have been encoded correctly into the device (or program, if you are using a calculator app on a smart phone). This doesn't even touch on the aspects of how math on a computing system is different than the methods we were taught to do math manipulations. 

Three, a lot of calculations that are done day-to-day on computers can't be done using calculators but are using more complex tools: spreadsheets, computer algrebra systems (CAS), computer-aided design (CAD), etc. This is a situation where, again, you are depending on the manufacturer of these tools and computers to have done the necessary work to make these tools work and work accurately. But here's the issue: can you, as a user of these tools, determine if the results are reasonable or not? This touches on whether you have the requisite knowledge to estimate where the answer should be and explaining it rationally. 

One of the reasons why estimation used to be a big part of math education was because you could simplify the problem by estimating all the values and then solving for the easier estimates. This gave you a ballpark for where you expected the answer to be. If the answer wasn't in that ballpark, then you had to go back and revisit either your calculations or your assumptions. I don't think estimation is taught much in public schools, and that seems to be because the educators don't understand what it is for. If you can't do the work, you should still have the ability to make an estimate of about where the answer should be and why. A lot of students I cross paths with cannot do this. It doesn't matter what kind of system is being used--calculator, CAS, CAD--that if you don't understand why the answer should be about where it is, you are going to mess up, and perhaps royally. 

The more you remove the end user from the actual process of calculating a solution, the more you put yourself in the position of trusting all the hardware and software that is used to do those calculations for you. So what happens when the programmers that made those systems retire? Are there programmers who can take up the mantle of programming these systems correctly and accurately? Are you going to be able to determine when your are getting garbage out because you put garbage in? 

In some ways, I think the COVID pandemic was an example of this. Consider: Neil Ferguson in the UK was putting out his garbage estimates for number of deaths that had no bearing on reality, but the leadership across the globe had no way of understanding that. They had no basis for understanding whether his numbers were reasonable or not. The belief that the model *is* reality is shocking to observe in supposedly intellectual segments of the population. Not understanding the garbage-in, garbage out flaw of models is one big issue with their expanded use. William Briggs writes extensively on this. Models will only do what you tell them.

Machine learning expands on this in a different way--because you can train the database that holds the information fed into the system, you might be able to create a more stable result. There is some evidence to suggest that machine learning, AI diagnostic systems for medicine can be much better at diagnosing patients than regular doctors are because the ML model can hold *all* the data, whereas the human brain cannot (usually). 

But notice, again, you are in the position that you must trust that the ML/AI was trained correctly, and the the programmers made the right choices. You are now trusting larger and larger systems. 

buzzsawmonkey 12/14/2022 11:53:55 AM

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Reply to vxbush in 11:

If you rely on "technology," you are placing yourself wholly in the hands of the programmers prog rammers.

vxbush 12/14/2022 12:45:34 PM

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In #12 buzzsawmonkey said: If you rely on "technology," you are placing yourself wholly in the hands of the programmers prog rammers.

Not bad. Not one of your best, but not bad. 

buzzsawmonkey 12/14/2022 12:56:10 PM

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In #13 vxbush said: Not one of your best, but not bad. 

One must be willing to fail if one is to reach the heights.

CyberSimian 12/14/2022 12:56:49 PM

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In #11 vxbush said: It used to be that in order to be considered educated, you needed to know Latin and Greek. Do we believe this is still necessary information to have? If not, why not?

For me, the issue with math and calculators involves several different facets.

Two, calculators are fine, but you have to ask yourself: do I trust them? Do I believe the calculators are doing the right thing where I can’t see it?

Three, a lot of calculations that are done day-to-day on computers can’t be done using calculators but are using more complex tools: spreadsheets, computer algrebra systems (CAS), computer-aided design (CAD), etc. This is a situation where, again, you are depending on the manufacturer of these tools and computers to have done the necessary work to make these tools work and work accurately. But here’s the issue: can you, as a user of these tools, determine if the results are reasonable or not?

Consider: Neil Ferguson in the UK was putting out his garbage estimates for number of deaths that had no bearing on reality, but the leadership across the globe had no way of understanding that.

Additionally, you have to consider that it isn’t just math that isn’t transparent, not when online books, dictionaries, new articles, and historical documents can all be changed and edited at any time, meaning that you can really on any of them.

buzzsawmonkey 12/14/2022 1:01:38 PM

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In #15 CyberSimian said: More and more, people around me are amazed when I do simple arithmetic in my head for day-to-day tasks, which is quicker than pulling out and using a phone’s calculator app. Some younger people even have problems with that. They have an elective class in my son’s school (I forget what it’s called) that’s designed to teach the math people need in day-to-day life (calculating interest, sales tax, etc.) Forget about calculus; most kids today aren’t even learning that.

There's a guy at my synagogue who teaches math at a local school. We're trying to work out a time when he can access my modest collection of math books from between the 1870s and the late teens of the last century.  They are full of word problems, have the answers in the back, etc.---and they're quite an eye-opener regarding how math instruction has declined.

CyberSimian 12/14/2022 1:14:11 PM

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In #16 buzzsawmonkey said: they're quite an eye-opener regarding how math instruction has declined.

The whole pandemic shutdown, where parents were stuck at home with their kids and actually got to see what their kids were being taught, has been a major eye-opener for literally millions.  Turned whole platoons of mild-mannered suburban parents into right-wing terrorist enemies of the state overnight.

CyberSimian 12/14/2022 1:17:59 PM

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Reply to CyberSimian in 17:

Before that, most parents had no idea what was going on in schools, which was not entirely their fault -- teachers and school officials regularly instructed and browbeat students into NOT telling their parents what they were being taught because they knew mom and dad would not be amused at all (as endless school meeting videos from across the country have demonstrated) and because it was another wedge deliberately designed to undermine parental authority and alienate kids from their parents -- kids who are being TOLD that they're gay, trans, or some other oppressed group, and that their parents will literally murder them if they find out.

buzzsawmonkey 12/14/2022 1:25:08 PM

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Reply to CyberSimian in 18:

My father---nearly a quarter-century gone now---served on the elementary school and high school boards of our town.  He discovered, back in the early '80s, the "Portland Baseline Essays," promulgated by the Portland, OR elementary-school system, which incorporated the worst of the Afrocentric and other nonsense we now know as "CRT."  He spent a great deal of effort---ultimately, of only questionable success---to prevent these fictions from becoming tutelage guidelines in the local schools.  The essays are---or until recently, were---still up on the Portland public-school website.  They've poisoned children and teaching all over the country for well over two decades.

Occasional Reader 12/14/2022 1:35:37 PM

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Thank heavens we finally have Rwanda on board, as partners in our space program.   (Not to mention Nigeria.)

CyberSimian 12/14/2022 1:51:12 PM

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In #20 Occasional Reader said: Thank heavens we finally have Rwanda on board, as partners in our space program.   (Not to mention Nigeria.)

I'm more concerned with which way the Duchy of Grand Fenwick is going to go.

Occasional Reader 12/14/2022 1:55:20 PM

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In #21 CyberSimian said: I'm more concerned with which way the Duchy of Grand Fenwick is going to go.

Those are wypipo, and therefore, worthless.

Now, Rwandan space flight technology, on the other hand... that's the secret ingredient our space program has been missing, up until now. 

lucius septimius 12/14/2022 2:49:02 PM

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In #11 vxbush said: But notice, again, you are in the position that you must trust that the ML/AI was trained correctly, and the the programmers made the right choices. You are now trusting larger and larger systems. 

Yes!  

Recently I was doing some applications of a relatively complex formula on Excel. I had found the way to program the formula ... or so the person claimed.  Luckily I knew how to do the formula myself and did a couple of test calculations with the old pencil and paper. I discovered that the published version didn't work.  I also discovered how Excel would very easily produce false results unless you added in a bunch of additional steps (which I knew from previous experience).  A case where the programmers made bad choices.  If I didn't know how to do the actual math behind it, I would have gotten completely useless results.

Alice in Dairyland 12/14/2022 3:50:45 PM

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In #11 vxbush said: This is a situation where, again, you are depending on the manufacturer of these tools and computers to have done the necessary work to make these tools work and work accurately.

You hit the nail on the head.  Back when I was first learning how to do accounting on a computer (as opposed to ledger books), I would get so frustrated.  I had very little computer experience, it was pretty much on the job training.  I'd ask the girl training me "why won't it do what I'm telling it to"; and she'd answer, "it's doing exactly what you are telling it to".  It's got to be right from the very beginning and you've got to be able to tell that it's right.  You're also spot on about who's going to maintain these systems if future generations aren't able to justify what they are doing.

Kosh's Shadow 12/14/2022 5:10:17 PM

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Reply to CyberSimian in 15:

I had to take 5 years of Latin in a 6-year program (7-12th grade). I did well on both SAT's and GRE's - got 99th percentile on the verbal GRE largely because of the Latin I learned. Minimal Greek. I'm one of those weird people who can do well in both right- and left-brain work, but then, I am sinister, in the original, Latin sense; I'm left-handed, There are two types of left-handedness; in one, the functions of the brain hemispheres are swapped; in the  other, they are mixed. I think I fit the latter category. But this means I don't think like "right" people.

As for calculators, look up the Isaac Asimov story "A Feeling of Power" My math grades were terrible until I started algebra, and then I did very well. I actually can estimate better now after using calculators than before. But as I said, I am weird. But not Weird Al

As for Latin, the video that every student says reminds them of their Latin teachers

Kosh's Shadow 12/14/2022 5:11:06 PM

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In #15 CyberSimian said: A lot of numbers cited by media, academics, and government and used as the basis for various laws, regulations, and projects are nothing more than ass-pulls.

Banning plastic straws was based on a number some little kid pulled out of his behind.

Kosh's Shadow 12/14/2022 5:45:02 PM

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Talk about foxes and henhouses:

Human Rights First continues to demand that Gitmo be shut down and warned that even saying the words “Islamic terrorism” was wrong. It bizarrely argued that there is “no reliable data to substantiate a claim that the United States is disproportionately threatened by foreign terrorists”. And it warned that designating the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist group would only fuel more terrorism by the religion that shall not be named lest its members blow us up.

Last year, HRF commemorated the anniversary of September 11 by blasting “the post-9/11 policies that have given rise to anti-Muslim sentiment” and demanded that America “leave behind the short-sighted narrowly focused security approach… in the aftermath of the attacks of 9/11.”

The Biden administration rewarded HRF with two high-profile roles for members of its board of directors. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who had been the vice chair of HRF’s board of directors, was put in charge of overall foreign policy, and Matthew G. Olsen was nominated to serve as the Assistant Attorney General for National Security for the Justice Department.

Olsen, who made millions working as the chief security officer for Uber, now, in the words of a bio, “leads the Department of Justice’s mission to combat terrorism, espionage, cyber crime, and other threats to the national security.” No one could be less fit for the job.

During the 2016 election campaign, Olsen authored a Time Magazine op-ed titled, “Why ISIS Supports Donald Trump.” The former National Counterterrorism Center official claimed that ISIS members supported Trump and then a year later joined the board of a group fighting to free terrorists.

Like most leftist smears, Olsen’s accusations were truer of the accuser than the accused.

Kosh's Shadow 12/14/2022 6:01:39 PM

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The FIB isn't just a fib

Several major Jewish organizations pushed back on recent FBI hate crimes data which showed a significant decline in religious-based hate crimes saying that the annual report is far from being accurate. The groups also called on the Federal Bureau of Investigation to amend the numbers.

“The 2021 hate crimes data is essentially useless,” said Marcus. “The problem is so bad that record-high levels of antisemitism appear in the official data as actual declines, because major jurisdictions didn’t formally report it. This massive failure has undermined the purposes of hate crime data precisely when we most need the data. If the FBI doesn't quickly correct this problem, congressional committees will need to ask some serious questions."

CyberSimian 12/14/2022 6:55:07 PM

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In #25 Kosh's Shadow said: As for Latin, the video that every student says reminds them of their Latin teachers

I was taking Latin the first time I saw that movie. I told my Latin teacher that he needed to see it.

Kosh's Shadow 12/14/2022 7:02:22 PM

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Reply to CyberSimian in 29:

My first Latin class, the teacher said he wished he could take his gun to the class so he could wake up students who fell asleep. (Don't speculate on who fell asleep)

Another Latin teacher threw a kid into the blackboard (and this school was built in the 1920's and had slate blackboards)

Kosh's Shadow 12/14/2022 7:08:51 PM

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I think before going into a Latin class, the students should say

"Awe Teacher, morituri te salutant"

(From memory, and I know I'll have a gladius at my neck if I got it wrong)

Occasional Reader 12/14/2022 8:12:36 PM

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Kosh's Shadow 12/14/2022 8:25:16 PM

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Reply to Occasional Reader in 33:

I will admit here I am an alumni of BLS. 

Occasional Reader 12/14/2022 8:29:07 PM

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In #34 Kosh's Shadow said: I will admit here I am an alumni of BLS. 

Are your pronouns illi and eos?