JCM 3/22/2021 5:09:59 PM

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Beers on me!

I finally capture a bug in my eCAD software that has been driving me crazy for long time. It will on random occasions replace a part of a design with another random part. Then I get a bug ticket saying the part is wrong. I will look at it, and sure enough the part is wrong, but I could swear I did it right in the first place.

I finally had the right properties dialogs open and I caught it making the part swap.

I complained about it once to the software vendor but since I hadn't capture the event, it was operator error.

Well I caught the damn software red handed making the swap!

YES! *fist pump*

Going to enjoy filing this ticket with the vendor.

Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 5:16:13 PM

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Reply to JCM in 1:

I have some guesses as to what they screwed up, and I will guess it has to do with multithreading and having two dialog boxes up at the same time.

Tell them to look up locks and mutexes.

I worked somewhere that had their home-grown bug reporting system. If you had two tickets open, it would replace the attachments to the first one with those of the second one, losing the originals.

The problem is, they'll probably fix it by making it impossible to look at properties of two parts at the same time, making the software harder to use.

Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 5:16:29 PM

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Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 5:18:27 PM

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Reply to Kosh's Shadow in 2:

I have overheard people talking about a bug they were looking for FOR WEEKS and could tell them what the problem was in 30 seconds.

You see, I made all these errors before, and I learned how not to make them, or at least where to look.

But no, I'm too old to be a good software engineer any more. Translation - I'm too expensive.

Read a news article where they admitted it, too. Not for me, but for the reporter's wife.

JCM 3/22/2021 5:29:35 PM

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Reply to Kosh's Shadow in 2:

Two random for that.... but I like it.

I would select the parts, place, them and down the line they would be wrong.

If I didn't have a certain properties dialog open displaying the part, and the view was a certain way where I could  not visually see a change it would get by me.

This time the changes was obvious and I had the correct properties box open to see what I did in place was completely different in another, randomly different.

My old company after I left started cutting overhead, by that I mean payroll. By laying off the old heads who had worked with the product lines for years. No matter how well you document something there are a myriad of little things that never get documented or glossed over.

Two years after I left.... the company was bought by another.

buzzsawmonkey 3/22/2021 5:29:38 PM

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Reply to Kosh's Shadow in 4:

Referring to my last comment in the daytime thread, I'd refer you to this well-known song by Steeleye Span: All Around My Hat I Will Wear the Green Willow.

The wearing of the green willow for "a twelvemonth and a day" is a way of proving that, by not being pregnant, the singer has kept her virginity.  The reference to "being careful" refers to songs like the well-known "Careless Love," which refers to a young woman who has been seduced and abandoned after being knocked up.  The woman in "Green Willow" has "been careful," i.e., has not agreed to sleep with her swain.  The list of "a quarter pound of reason, a half a pound of sense, a small sprig of thyme (time), and a smudge of prudence" does NOT refer to spices, though it pretends to.

There are many songs of this sort: "Careless Love" and "On Top of Old Smokey" are probably two of the most famous.

Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 5:30:24 PM

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Reply to Kosh's Shadow in 4:

Actually, the bug is more likely that the software has trouble when more than one properties dialog is open. Either it screws up all the time, which doesn't seem to be the case, or if the second dialog is opened before the first one has finished loading, the data for the second one overwrites the first. Hard to find, but once found, fairly straightforward for a good software engineer to fix.

Now, I admit this is diagnosing a patient without seeing the patient, but I would not be surprised to find I have if not pinpointed the bug, been able to give its general area.

Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 5:33:40 PM

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Reply to JCM in 5:

So it still sounds like there are multiple data items in use in the software, but the wrong one gets written.

Was the wrong part one that was still in this design or not?

If so, then it is localized to the way it handles data, and quite possibly due to one thread writing data that out to the database while another is changing it. And if the parts are not in the same diagram, this could still be the case, but it would be most likely in the server code, not in the client code.

@PBJ3 3/22/2021 5:33:49 PM

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In #1 JCM said: YES! *fist pump* Going to enjoy filing this ticket with the vendor.

I'll bet you are!  Thanks so much for the beer!

Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 5:37:57 PM

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In #5 JCM said: My old company after I left started cutting overhead, by that I mean payroll. By laying off the old heads who had worked with the product lines for years. No matter how well you document something there are a myriad of little things that never get documented or glossed over.

I was laid off by a company, along with the other person in our group who knew the build process. This was a mess, with Visual Studio projects, Perl scripts, bat files, and ClearCase. There were two experts on it in the company, and they were very busy, and did not have time for fools. I was able to get answers from one of them, because he quickly found out it would be a quick answer, and I'd go off and do the work.

The other person in the group was junior to me, but I was helping him learn. We both got laid off.

Two weeks later, my former boss wanted me back as a contractor because they had not been able to get a single software build done. I was willing, but the company refused. 

JCM 3/22/2021 5:38:47 PM

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Reply to Kosh's Shadow in 8:

So it still sounds like there are multiple data items in use in the software, but the wrong one gets written.

Very true.

I'm just happy to have capture an event. Now I know how to set up to see the event next time it happens, but more I can club the vendor over the head with it. PEBKAC my ass!

JCM 3/22/2021 5:46:31 PM

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Reply to @PBJ3 in 9:

This is expensive software, $70k per seat per year, and we have 40 seats. There are only two of us who use the library subset of tools, and their are a PITA to use. Dated interface, inconsistent terminology and usage rules. It is a cobbled together collection of pieces bought by the company over the years and packaged together but never integrated.

Most often when I ask a question, the response is "that is the way it is", and my response is well it damn stupid way it is.

In just a year working with the tool I've created I think 4 major issue tickets with them, this will be a 5th. By major something they have to do make coding changes and update the software package.

@PBJ3 3/22/2021 5:47:32 PM

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Iran threatens U.S. Army post and a top general

@PBJ3 3/22/2021 5:49:15 PM

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Reply to JCM in 12:

Wow, I'll bet it's given you a grey hair or two.

JCM 3/22/2021 5:51:43 PM

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Meanwhile in NCAA basketball where I have not been pilloried with wokeness. Gonzaga Bulldogs, 26-0 in the regular season and #1 in the country advance to the Sweet 16.

GO ZAGS!

JCM 3/22/2021 5:54:18 PM

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Reply to @PBJ3 in 14:

One was kind of funny.

There is a very common object in electrical designs used to connect things. It's been around since they did designs using acetate sheets and tape. This product when I was first learning it I ask about the object. They hung their head and mumbled "we don't have it, and can't do it" But we have this work around.... *sigh*

Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 5:58:30 PM

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Reply to buzzsawmonkey in 6:

Or when things go and both people regret it - Jukebox

Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 6:01:10 PM

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Reply to JCM in 12:

And the market is probably too small for a competitor to come in and do it right, given the cost of writing the software.

Cobbled together bits makes me think there could also be temporary files involved that get overwritten. Lots of places for bugs to show up.

Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 6:02:49 PM

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In #13 @PBJ3 said: Iran threatens U.S. Army post and a top general

They would not have done this with Trump in charge. Maybe thought about it (and it is unclear whether that is all they ever did), but not carried it out.

Not sure they'd carry out the attack with Bye,den, either, lest he have to abandon giving them some kind of deal.

buzzsawmonkey 3/22/2021 6:06:33 PM

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Reply to Kosh's Shadow in 17:

"Paradise by the Dashboard Light" is an interesting song.  It's great in itself, but it is also very much in the tradition of songs dealing with regret for premarital sex---and, at the same time, it actually says/suggests that the Horny Boy did the right thing.

JCM 3/22/2021 6:15:21 PM

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Reply to Kosh's Shadow in 18:

There are 3 top tier vendors for this eCAD stuff, and a bunch of 2nd tier and whole raft of hobby level stuff.

Or design require top tier and the one we bought has a unique feature which was a requirement for what we are doing.

The "package" has been around for 20-25 years, the core package was acquired by the current vendor, they add features by buying up the companies that used to do add on features to enhance the core. 

Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 6:20:15 PM

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In #21 JCM said: Or design require top tier and the one we bought has a unique feature which was a requirement for what we are doing.

They got you by the electronic balls, and probably their license excludes damages due to bugs.

If I weren't currently employed, and need approval for outside work, I'd offer them my help - for a lot, but they wouldn't take me, even though I'd put them on the right path in a day or so.

As for the time I said people were trying to solve something for two weeks - multiple systems. One sent the message, the other one received it, but the first one never got the reply. Oh, the firewall on the first system was blocking it. I was right. (Having seen the exact same problem many times before)

@PBJ3 3/22/2021 6:26:57 PM

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Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 6:34:55 PM

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Reply to @PBJ3 in 23:

We just get helicopters inspecting the nearby power lines.

JCM 3/22/2021 6:42:51 PM

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Reply to Kosh's Shadow in 22:

Given the 800 pound gorilla nature of my employer we have a full time support rep assigned just to us.

Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 6:44:59 PM

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Reply to JCM in 25:

Reminds me, a bit late, about the gorilla who read the Purim scroll - Megillah Gorilla

Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 6:45:40 PM

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Reply to Kosh's Shadow in 24:

And the V-22's from the nearby Reserves base. Those things make a unique noise

JCM 3/22/2021 7:19:27 PM

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Reply to Kosh's Shadow in 27:

3 from VH-1 flew over my house a few years back, low.... noisy buggers.

Kosh's Shadow 3/22/2021 7:35:55 PM

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Reply to JCM in 28:

One of my persons to contact at the contract house I work for said the only thing that frightened him in the Marines was flying in a V-22

Occasional Reader 3/22/2021 7:42:42 PM

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Syrah 3/22/2021 8:18:28 PM

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Reply to JCM in 1:  Imagine if a hostile foreign power with hacking skills and built in backdoors in many software systems and hardware components... they could use those assets to muck up a CAD program to randomly switch a part or design element here and there.  Otha got big. Very deliberately nothing big. The smaller the better. Harder to find.

How many man hours and millions of dollars could be wasted in back tracking fixes and trying to figure out why prototypes and even finished products don’t work as expected?

just wondering ...

Syrah 3/22/2021 8:20:16 PM

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In #31 Syrah said:

(Otha got big)

Should be

(Nothing big)

Syrah 3/22/2021 8:25:09 PM

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In other news, Idaho is looking mighty tempting. 

Washington State is going full California.

i want out. 

JCM 3/22/2021 8:32:52 PM

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Reply to Occasional Reader in 30:

Death toll at 10.

Damn, just damn.

JCM 3/22/2021 8:33:31 PM

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Reply to Syrah in 33:

Yes but we can go to bar with substantial appetizers!

Syrah 3/22/2021 8:37:44 PM

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Reply to JCM in 35:

...substantial appetizers...

Syrah 3/22/2021 8:40:10 PM

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Reply to Occasional Reader in 30:

Reply to JCM in 34:

It is bad.

@PBJ3 3/22/2021 8:46:33 PM

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Reply to Occasional Reader in 30:

RIP officer Eric Talley

@PBJ3 3/22/2021 8:47:56 PM

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In #33 Syrah said: In other news, Idaho is looking mighty tempting.  Washington State is going full California. i want out. 

I hear you.  It's nice to see you here Syrah!